We are a registered charity in England and Scotland, also a company registered in England. I have two questions which I would welcome help with:

1. Does the fact that we are not registered as a company in Scotland affect the liability of trustees when we are operating in Scotland? We are registered with Companies House in England

2. We have adopted an operating name of DeafVision, but our legal name is Cumbria Deaf Association. We want to use DeafVision, our operating name on the front cover of our Annual Report. Are there any legal difficulties with doing this? We will explain that this is an operating name within the report.

This is a follow-up to the linked questions "Can a charity give up its charitable status?"(5 June) and “How can we sort out this charity's financial muddle?” (19 June)

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The two staff (who work for both the Charity and the non-charity) are paying all proceeds into the non-charity’s bank account.

The pre-school (the Charity) receives funding through parents’ fees and an education grant paid by the government – all paid into the non-charity bank account. The out of school club (non-charity) receives funding from fees only (as far as we know, as they do not seem to know themselves) and this is also paid into the same bank account.

This in essence means that there has been no activity on the Charity’s bank account since December 2006. Does this mean the Charity can be dissolved having no listed assets?

The staff made an estimate of what the combined income and expenditure was for year ending December 2006 based only on bank statements (no paper or other records) and their own estimate of numbers of children attending. This was for both groups. Although this was paid into the non-charitable organisation’s bank account, they created and submitted accounts (and we have not seen these) to the Charity Commission for the charity’s estimated portion.

The parents who use the group would not know (or I think be concerned) as to which one was receiving the money. However, the education grant payments may be a different issue as they are direct grant from the local authority for providing early years education for 3 and 4 year old children who attend the group. This may be an issue for them?

This is a follow-up to the question "Can a charity give up its charitable status?", posted on 5 June.

Hi Charlie,

Further to my question regarding a Pre-school giving up charity status: we have now ascertained that the group have no financial records/supporting invoices/receipts. They do however have their bank statements. In the absence of any records we are assuming that an accountant would be unable to untangle the charity and the unincorporated group and make the decision in respect of whether the club is one entity or two sperate organisations.

The accounts submitted to the Charity Commission by the staff are assessed on their bank statement only. As all proceeds are banked together (with no record made of individual transactions) and expenditure is assessed with one cheque being made out when required, the group has indicated there is some guess work involved in this process.

There are 4 trustees but they have no meetings so it would appear that the staff run the 2 groups as 1 but with very little knowledge and support available to them. They have had 2 bank accounts in the past but at some point decided to pay all proceeds into the non charity account.

We have now set up a formal accounting procedure for them which involves retaining all relevant income and expenditure paperwork and ensures that they are now keeping two distinct records for the Charity and unincorporated group. Where would you suggest the group goes from here?

As an independent support organisation what is our position with regard to what we now know about this group, are we obliged to inform the Charity Commission about the situation? Would it be worth laying cards on the table to the Commission letting them know they are now getting things in order and ensure that thay have the necessary support to operate correctly from this point on?

Ideally the group would want to de-register as a charity and run as a Company Limited by Guarantee, but we have advised them to sort the above issues first before taking the next steps.

Charlie

This is a supplementary to the question: "What legal form would suit this consortium?"

They are keen to be a limited company and will seek proper legal advice to help them draft the mem and arts, but I have brief question relating to transfer of assets.

The new company will take over the assets of an existing social enterprise company (not a charity in itself) but they also need to take on responsibility for a small charity with a shop which has a separate board. Can this charity remain independent but be supported / managed by the new company or is it possible for the charity to become part of the Ltd Company sharing a board, directors and gaining support and guidance from the new company?

Or is it possible to wind the charity down and transfer the assets to the new, non-charitable company?

I think that last suggestion might not be legally possible. The assets are neglibile and the shop makes very little money.

Dear Charlie, I am involved with a group of voluntary organisations who are thinking of forming a Trust. I realise that this is a broad sweeping question but can you help me with pros & cons; how to go about this; etc.

In fact any information would be appreciated.

Hi Charlie,

I am working with a pre-school who would like to give up their charity status.

They also run a before & after school club that is not a charity. The Charity is being supported and funded by the before/after school club. The Charity has a PLA constitution and all assests held belong to the before/after school clubs.

The charity is struggling to recruit trustees/committee members and the group feel they would like all 3 services under one umbrella of a company limited by guarantee. The before/after school club are an unincorporated body.

Any advise on giving up charity status and considerations the group needs to take into account? Thanks.

A small charitable organisation is paying an accountant to be their Treasurer. I understand that this is acceptable to the Charity Commission if in the best interests of the charity and they have no other suitable person to do the job. If this person is Treasurer should they then also be a trustee and are there likely to be any other issues in this situation? Many thanks

Exempt charity fears:

I have heard that existing exempt charities will be - or are being - required to change their constitutions to allow them to register as charities, because their current status is no longer recognised. I am aware that the proposed CIO may lead to all charitable organisations being forced to use this new form at some time in the future, but have I missed a more imminent threat or are urban myths circulating once again?

Question: we are a local branch of a national charity and our chair is trying to sell our building for redevelopment and for it to be leased back to us. We feel he is undermining our committee and our members. We held a meeting where 41 members met and 39 called for a vote of no confidence in the chair. We called for a special general meeting (SGM) to be held and 22 members wrote to the secretary (who is married to the Chair) requesting a SGM. It took her 21 days to write back requesting reasons for a SGM. 11 of the 22 wrote in with our reasons and we are still waiting for a date to be set. In the meantime the Chair is still in place. We have complained to the National charity and the regional charity who seem not to be interested. What can you do for us?

I do know one of our members has sent in our constitution to your selves a while ago

but I can always send it in again with copies of the letter we have sent. We need action urgently. We have 2 members on sick due to stress through this chair with the project manager who is due to go back into work this week who has a grievance against the chair via a national unison for bullying.

I know it's been a while, but on the 1st April 2008, (not a joke) Fishersgate Community Association was awarded £650k breaches of contract and £75k for legal fees and the trustees and the FCA have been cleared of all claims against them. We discussed a few issues before, I am in contact with the Charities Commission. About the funding and also what happens to the funds. Also we want information about the new form of charity that they are setting up "CIO".

Adur District Council still hold the Fire Insurance payout, now valued at £185k. On the 11th April ADC sent a letter stating that we are to hand back the lease by the end of May 2008, we still have 70 years of the lease to run. The Award is now available via our website, and you will note that para 13 "ADC signed the agreement with the builder" .

We are not giving up yet on the community. Para 7 of the judgement needs to be noted to all about being a trustee.